Because Jane initially learns to understand the world in terms of a teacher-student relationship, all her friendships have some master-pupil tinge to them.
Toby
2/13/2013 02:10:19 am
I see you.
Abby H.
2/13/2013 02:15:24 am
I do agree with this statement. At Ms. Temple and Helen Burns, Jane looks with admiration and awe, she does not seem to feel a sense of equality. Helen Burns is older than her, and wiser, she also has greater emotional control than Jane. In Helen Burns' conversation with Ms. Temple, Jane says "they conversed of things I had never heard of", implying that they are both more educated than her.
Rachel W.
2/14/2013 09:12:42 am
I agree with Abby. Jane develops a love and knowledge of learning because of Ms. Temple. She idolizes and aspires to be like her in many ways. "I had meant to be so good, and to do so much at Lowood; Miss Temple had smiled approbation; she had promised to teach me drawing, and to let me learn French."
Rubab T
2/14/2013 09:48:20 am
I agree with this statement because at Thornfield Jane Knows that her pupil is not interested in learning what she is teaching but Jane finds a way to teach her. "I found my pupil sufficiently docile, though disinclined to apply"(Bronte) Jane wants to be like what Mrs. Temple was to her.
Mackenzie M.
2/16/2013 03:57:21 am
"You have nothing to do with the master of Thornfield, further than to receive the salary he gives you for teaching his protegee." Mrs. Fairfax seems to think that Jane is below Mr. Rochester on the social scale, but I think Jane knows that she is equal to him on an intellectual level, just not on a monetary level. She continues to accept her feelings for Mr. Rochester even after Mrs. Fairfax tells her to let it go.
Emily R
2/19/2013 07:05:58 am
I disagree with this statement, though most of her relationships have this tinge to it once Jane falls in love with Rochester and he proposes to her she does not feel like he is her teacher or master but instead that they are equals. "I assured him I was naturally hard... rugged points in my character" pg 314, this is certainly not something that a student would do to a teacher.
Dani W.
2/23/2013 04:36:51 am
Disagreed, Jane did not see herself as equal to Rochester. When they become engaged Rochester insists on Jane calling him Edward, but she continues to call him 'sir', keeping his affections at a professional distance. She also states to Rochester that "I shall continue to act as Adele's governess..I shall earn my board and lodging...I shall furnish my own wardrobe...and you shall give me nothing but...your regard" (p.311). She then refuses to dine together with Rochester, as master and servant do not dine together, and when Rochester states "You will give up your governessing slavery at once" (p.311), Jane replies with, "Indeed, begging your pardon, sir, I shall not" (p.311). Jane purposely keeps her relationship with Rochester as that of employer and employee. The only time Jane sees herself as Rochester's equal is when (SPOILERS) they are actually married in ch.38 and she addresses him as Edward, showing that they are equals.
Karis P
3/1/2013 05:26:33 am
I agree with Dani that they are not necessarily equals, but I do not think their relationship falls under the teacher-student relationship either. With Hellen and Ms. Temple, Jane felt as though they had something to teach her and that they were older and wiser. In her relationship with Rochester, I think she simply acts like a woman of the relationship during this time period.
Caitlin F
2/19/2013 11:04:31 am
agree: her relationships with most people are more teacher-student-- with her friend Helen, she still believes she is nowhere near Helen's caliber of intelligence and inner beauty, and the same goes for Miss Temple with her kindness and beauty. but her relationship with Mr. Rochester changes over time to being equal; even when she first meets him, she is keeping up with the conversation he brings and astounds him with her own charm, wit, and intelligence
Megan B
2/20/2013 09:34:52 am
I side with Emily. Yes, Jane does sort of idolize Helen, Miss Temple, Eliza, and Georgiana. Jane learns from them, she takes a mental note of their actions. However, when Jane feels complete love and happiness Rochester does not fall in the "teacher-student" category. A stormy night Jane says "Mr. Rochester came thrice to my door in the course of it, to ask if I was safe and tranquil: and that was comfort, that was the strength for anything." (295) I believe when it comes to this relationship it is more "student-student" they are both learning how to love deeper and give into the real feelings stirring inside them.
Lucia E.
2/23/2013 03:25:00 am
Spoiler Alert!!!
Ana E
2/26/2013 10:44:06 am
Agreed. Almost every encounter that Jane has with another person includes her status intellectually. When observing Miss. Temple and Helen, she is almost jealous at the fact that Helen knows more than she does.
Nathan M.
2/26/2013 02:26:11 pm
"You will give up your governessing slavery at once"- Mr. Rochester, Jane replies with, "Indeed, begging your pardon, sir, I shall not" (Bronte 311). Being inferior is all she knows. Her childhood is defined as being under all the Reeds and even the servants. At the school she feels she is under Helen as well as Miss Temple. At Thornfield she is determined to remain an employee to Mr. Rochester instead of his equal, despite the fierce love they share.
Kyle W.
2/26/2013 11:35:36 pm
I agree, when Jane first sees Miss Temple and Helen conversing, she idolizes them. even though they arent talking about anything she has more than a surface background on, she is completely amazed by the relationship between the two of them.
Brian H.
2/26/2013 11:38:18 pm
It seems to me that she does not really see her relationships as teacher-student; she seems more to just admire intellectual prowess and understanding. The many people she encounters with different levels of knowledge are seen more as just intellectual superiors than teachers. Many of her acquaintances, particularly Helen, she speaks to as equals, even though she recognizes their learning surpassing hers.
Alex Price
3/1/2013 02:00:40 pm
I agree! While Jane's life is mostly focused on academics when she is at Lowood I agree she seeks relationships with intellectual superiors (Hellen, Miss Temple). As I posted in another discussion, she seeks relationships and friendships more than her educational desires. Therefore, i disagree with the master-pupil tinge theory.
Stephanie D.
2/26/2013 11:45:04 pm
I disagree, because in some of her most important relationships, like that of her and Rochester, the absolute last thing she probably even thinks about doing is treating him in a teacher-student manner, and she doesn't envy him for being educated like she did others.
Lydia F.
2/28/2013 08:30:05 am
I agree with you Stephanie. Jane doesn't have a teacher/student relationship with Rochester. I can't find where in the book but Jane asks Rochester to see her as equally intellectual, because of this equivalence the teacher/student aspect is completely erased.
Rae G.
2/28/2013 09:47:40 am
I agree with this, she continues to call Mr.Rochester Sir, Master, and Mr.Rochester even after they are engaged. She takes on the student role later with St.John, Diana, and Mary as well.
Nicholette U
2/28/2013 10:16:29 am
I would not say that her initial understanding of the world was all from teacher-student relationships. At her home at the Reeves estate when she is youngest and most impressionable, she has very little good guidance. There is virtually no professor other than herself. I think this original deprivation from a good mentor is what makes her value it in her future relationships. It is not because it is the only way she knows. It is because it is the way she has found that has proved better than the way she has known. Most of her relationships do have that master student tinge because it gives her a heightened sense of security in having the support she lacked during childhood. They also aid her in her pursuit of knowledge.
Nicholette U
2/28/2013 10:17:04 am
More correctly wisdom.
Tatiana C.
3/1/2013 09:45:18 am
Nicholette we pretty much agree on something!! Somewhere in her droning about her pitiful childhood and the even more pitiful decisions she makes I realized that one of the only constants in Jane's life is that she enjoys learning. In the beginning she finds ways to add to her knowledge on her own by reading things like "Goldsmith's History of Rome" in chapter 1, and later she takes what others will give her. So in her relationships Jane trys to figure out what the another person can contribute to her intellect but she doesn't view them as a teacher necessarily.
Anna H
2/28/2013 11:05:38 am
I agree that ever since Jane was at Lowood and looked up to Helen Burns and Ms. Temple the rest of her realtionships have been similar. She never quite sees herslef as an equal to anyone she meets. Especially Mr. Rochester and then the peopl he brings back to Thornfield.
Caitlyn E.
3/1/2013 03:23:22 pm
I agree with you on the point that "she never quite sees herself as an equal to anyone she meets" but I wouldn't say she has a teacher-student with everyone, especially not Rochester. Maybe they do at first but after she returns to Thornfield from visiting Ms. Reed and they proclaim their real feelings, the relationship has a completly different dynamic. She then views him as a companion, yet not quite an equal. When she leaves him, she pities him but knows he has much to learn without her. These are just a few examples of how her relationship with Edward Rochester doesn't display one of a teacher and student.
Callie T.
2/28/2013 01:20:46 pm
I agree, throughout the novel she continues to call Rochester Mr., Sir, and Master, even after they are engaged. She later takes on the student role with Diana, Mary, and St. John.
Morgan S
2/28/2013 11:46:15 pm
Jane’s relationship with Mr. Rochester is one of the most prominent teacher-student relationships wherein Jane is not actually a student in the novel. Mrs. Fairfax points out to Jane that she has “nothing to do with the master of Thornsfield, further than to receive the salary he gives you for teaching his protégée,” which implies that Jane is below Mr. Rochester on every level. But then on page 199 when Jane first internally confesses her love for Mr. Rochester, she makes that claim that she is of the same kind as him. She wants to break the mold of the teacher-student relationship.
Caitlyn E.
3/1/2013 03:34:47 pm
I think she does just that by leaving him! (breaks the mold of the teacher-student relationship)
M. Woodard
3/1/2013 02:46:11 am
I have to disagree since it said all of her relationships had a type of teacher to student tinge. A lot of her relationships do have some sort of incarnation of this, but it is not all inclusive. For example Jane's relation to most of the servants at Thornfield is one of essential equality.
Voskuil
3/1/2013 03:47:33 am
"Because Jane initially learns to understand the world in terms of a teacher-student relationship, all her friendships have some master-pupil tinge to them."
Victoria B.
3/1/2013 06:29:05 am
I would say that Jane does treat others like they a teacher-student relationship because she always treats others like they are her superiors. While she may be blunt about some things, she is still somewhat timid. For example, Jane becomes close to Rochester, and even though she sees him as a companion, she still acts like he is a superior to her because of her employment.
Tatiana C.
3/1/2013 09:14:43 am
I disagree. From the beginning her relationships with the children in her home were in a sense, predator and prey. And though Adele is Jane's pupil, she feels that Adele is her equal. I guess you could say that was a teacher and student relationship, but their bond was not created because Jane was Adele's teacher it was because Jane could relate to her. "No: Adele is not answerable for either her mother's faults or yours: I have a regard for her; and now that I know she is, in a sense, parentless—forsaken by her mother and disowned by you, sir—I shall cling closer to her than before." (Ch. 15)
Graham G.
3/1/2013 10:38:20 am
Perhaps I'm way off base, but I think that in the case of Rochester's courtship, Jane is not really equals with her love. She overtakes him intellectually and gains the upper hand in the relationship. He dotes on Jane, calling her playful names and presenting her with "shiny apples" of sorts, like that brown-noser from gradeschool hoping to gain the teacher's favor. However, Jane is not having any of it--she refuses his advances, therefore the relationship is put on hold. If the traditional teacher-student thang is qualified to mean that one person (the teacher) holds superior abilities in some field, and tries to transfer those skills to another (the student); then one could say (providing he/she possesses argumentation greater than my own) that Jane is teaching Rochester the ways of etiquette in love's back-and-forth.
Addi B
3/1/2013 10:51:31 am
Janet's relationships do tend to have a master pupil tinge to them. One example is with Rochester when he is blind. Unlike most of her other relationships, in this relationship she was the master and Rochester was the pupil. Jane was "literally...the apple of his eye."(pg523) Jane was "gazing for his behalf, and putting into words the effect of field, tree, town, river, cloud, sunbeam."(pg523-524) Jane taught Rochester everything during the years he was completely blind. She also taught Rochester how to let go of authority and trust another person entirely.
Crissy T.
3/1/2013 11:22:54 am
I agree because she was never taught how to have a loving relationship with someone at Gateshead. It wasn't until she arrived at Lowood and met Helen, who Jane saw as being very intelligent and one of her role models, and Miss Temple that she truly had friendship.
Kristen S.
3/1/2013 12:45:11 pm
With Helen, even at a young age, Helen is the teacher while Jane is the student when learning about learning how to behave at Lowood, and even in other subjects like faith, friendship, and kindness. That begins her first peer-peer teacher-student relationship, that builds on with Mr. Rochester. At the beginning of their friendship, he sees himself to be superior to Jane, and even Jane realizes this when she says “To speak the truth, sir... I cannot keep up the conversation, because it has got out of my depth.” (p. 155). They begin as Rochester as the teacher, then having Jane as the student, but as their relationship develops then continues, Jane becomes the teacher as she strives to be independent, even though she loves him, and Mr. Rochester becomes the student because he is restrained to Bertha and cannot gain the independence Jane exemplifies.
Rebecca P.
3/1/2013 01:03:30 pm
I agree this relationship is seen with Jane and many people throughout the entire book. It first started with Bessie because she was always trying to teacher Jane how to act and teach her her place. Then it continued with Ms. Temple and Helen Burns. This can be inferred because on page 79 when she exclaims how they "conversed of things [she] had never heard of". This flipped when Jane became Adele's governess. Jane was ready to teach her and did, but just thought Adele was average and nothing special. However, she did care for Adele and we can see this when she makes Rochester bring Adele with them to town. It can be inferred that Jane took consideration in Adele because she didn't want Adele to grow up how she did. Lastly, Mr. Rochester and Jane's relationship was complicated. I do believe that they have this teacher-pupil relationship throughout the whole book because she is constantly referring to Rochester as "master" and "sir". These references show that feels inferior, or lower class to him. However, the relationship lightens up during certain parts. I say this because she asserts that she is going to visit her aunt and when he tries to make her promise him that she will only be gone for a week, she will not. Jane exclaims that she does not know how long she will begone and does not want to break a promise and when he tries to get his money back from her, she will not him. She says how she can not trust him. These show how a majority of her prominent relationships are.
Ashton T
3/1/2013 01:59:50 pm
Jane never had a true mother figure, rather she found friends and teachers. She treats her pupils as her children because of how she grew up. "till my spirit was moved to emulation as I listened. Besides, school would be a complete change: it implied a long journey, an entire separation from Gateshead, an entrance into a new life." (page 22)
Tyler E.
3/2/2013 07:44:48 am
Jane never really got the chance to experience childhood. Losing her parents at a young age and had to grow up early. So she treats her friends with a motherly attitude rather then on a kid level. Leave a Reply. | Online DiscussionTry on an opinion or two, start a debate, or play the devil's advocate. Respond to the statements, with textual support, that either agrees/disagrees, proves/disproves, or responds to a classmate's post. Sentences and ideas gathered from www.shmoop.com. ArchivesCategories |
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